The Briefing interview by Sacha Barbour Gatt with Malcolm Turnbull 26/5/2026
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HOST: Speculation is mounting that Australia is about to get a new political party - one that could serve as a genuine opposition to One Nation. Reports started over the weekend that the already-elected Teal independents are poised to announce they're joining forces to create a new centrist party, and they could also be courting other independents and even moderate Liberals.
We heard from both Kate Cheney and Monique Ryan, both MPs, saying they will not be joining a political party right now. But both Zali Steggall and Allegra Spender fronted the media yesterday to confirm the reports, but stopped short of announcing anything just yet.
So why is this happening now? And what does a former Liberal Prime Minister and centrist make of the conversation, and could he get involved? Malcolm Turnbull is that former PM, and he joins me now.
Welcome back to The Briefing, Malcolm. What do you make of the possibility of a brand new political party made up of Teals and independents?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, I think there's an opportunity there. The Liberal Party has moved over the years further to the right, and that's why you've had Teals, independent candidates elected in safe Liberal seats. And of course you've had Helen Haines, preceded by Cathy McGowan, being elected and re-elected in Indi, another safe Liberal Party seat. And of course you've got Bec Sharkie in the seat of Mayo in Victoria. So there are now about nine really historically very safe Liberal seats that are held by independents.
They're not all the same. They are not members of a party, but they all have a couple of things in common. They're all women, for a start, they are progressive on climate, they're progressive on social issues, but they're pretty centrist, conservative, rational on the economy and business. And that's what I would call a small-l liberal view of the world and that is what the larger L Liberal Party has moved away from. They've kept moving to the right, and now they're essentially copying policies from One Nation, as we saw recently with Angus Taylor's immigration policy.
I'm saying there's clearly a gap in the market. There's a vacuum at the centre in Australian politics. There should be two big parties at the centre, at the moment there is only one. If a new party were to fill that, whether it succeeded would depend on the quality of its advocates and the quality of the policies they were promoting.
HOST: There are reports that you've been involved in the background. Are any of those to be believed?
TURNBULL: Well, look, I'm not sure what the reports are. I'm not organising a new political party fullstop. I'm not involved in doing that. Do I think it would be healthy if there were one? Yes, I think it would be healthy. But I support diversity in our politics. I like to see competition. I like our political system to be competitive, so yes.
And I would also say that the quality of these independents is very, very high. There isn't a Cabinet that I've been a member of over the years which would not have been improved by the inclusion of one or more of those independents. Frankly, they can make a better contribution to Australia if they were part of a government, or an alternative government - an opposition - and they can only do that, really, if they are part of a larger group.
Now, it might just be an alliance, a collaboration, but it's got to have some sort of coherence so that they can present themselves at election time and instead of saying, "I'm running to be your feisty Independent, giving speeches to an empty chamber from the crossbench" they can say, "I am running to be part of a government in which I expect to be the Treasurer, or the Minister for the Environment, or something like that."
Ultimately, the country is run by the government, and the government is the group of MPs that have the majority of seats in the House of Representatives. And if you're not playing for that, then you are not really going to make the sort of impact that the quality of those candidates should be making.
HOST: Now, you mentioned it there these independents kind of selling themselves as, "I'll be the scrappy one, fighting for your rights sort of thing, not aligned to a major party, I’m independent of that." And that’s part of a lot of their selling platform is that on climate, centrist on economics, more progressive on social issues, but they don’t have any alliance to any major party where you can end up forced into a vote where maybe you don't agree with the policies. So do you think there could be reputational damage done if these MPs who have been elected as independents are all of a sudden turning to their constituents who voted them in and saying, "Well, now I'm part of a party"?
TURNBULL: They would have to explain that. That would be challenging. But I think the point is that it depends what the party is standing for. The reason those independents were elected, in my view, was not because they were independents, but because they were not Labor or Liberal. And particularly in most of the seats the so-called Teals occupy, they were safe Liberal seats in the cities, they were elected because the Liberal Party, particularly the case after I left, was seen to have moved too far to the right.
I mean, Zali Steggall won because she was not a Labor candidate, but she also wasn't Tony Abbott. That was a vote against the Liberal Party Member who was seen as being too right-wing.
The simple point I'm making is: the very existence of the Teals should have sent a powerful message to the Liberal Party - you have to tack back to the centre. You've got to be focusing on winning 50% plus one of the electorate, not winning the applause of Sky News After Dark or the Murdoch tabloids. Instead, they kept going off to the right, with very predictable results.
And so the more the Liberal Party tries to emulate One Nation, the more it validates One Nation, legitimises One Nation. If you say "tough on immigration" is an important issue, if tough on immigration is the issue of the day then people who are concerned about that will say, "Oh well, I may as well vote for the real deal - I'll vote for Pauline." The problem is you cannot outflank One Nation. Barnaby's made this point and he's absolutely right - the Liberal Party is enabling, bolstering, and boosting One Nation, and in doing so, diminishing its own support, with the consequences that we've seen in one election after another.
HOST: What happens to Labor in this argument, then? We say the centrist party - this theoretical Teal-independent party comes along and represents the true centre. The Libs are pushed out. One Nation is the right. Is Labor the left, then? Is that how the political landscape moves forward?
TURNBULL: It's hard to predict. The Labor Party has got enormous endurance. The Labor Party has the great advantage that it is the political wing of the trade union movement. Now, a lot of people say that's an Achilles heel too, that's a problem for it, but it gives it an institutional solidity.
The problem on the other hand that the Liberal Party and just about every other party in Australia has is that they are controlled by their members. And so, as their membership base dwindles and becomes smaller and less representative of the community as a whole, they can very readily get out of touch with the electorate at large.
There is a question you can legitimately ask -and Angus Taylor has made this point - there is a legitimate question will the Liberal Party survive? It's an existential time for it. I don't think you'd ever say that about the Labor Party, for those institutional and structural reasons I mentioned.
HOST: What do you think Labor will make of this conversation, sitting in government right now?
TURNBULL: I imagine they'll be mildly interested. But at the end of the day, Labor is in a very strong position. Their primary vote is down, that's for sure, but all of the polls indicate this - at this stage, they almost certainly get returned to government.
You would not need to be a particularly skilled campaigner to make a case that a government that was composed of One Nation would be a risk to Australia. Again, you would have to make that case but this is a multicultural society - about a third of the people just in Sydney, for example, were born outside of Australia, more than half of Australians have got one parent born overseas. If the alternative to Labor is a Liberal-National coalition with One Nation - which is what it would be - and One Nation is a party that has been based for thirty years on animosity to multicultural Australia… Pauline Hanson has targeted Asians and Aboriginal Australians and Muslims. This is a woman who's worn a burqa into the Senate twice, mocking Muslim women. I mean, really? Is that really the type of government Australians will vote for?
That might be a protest vote, but I think when people think about it seriously, they won't want to do it. The Liberals, in emulating One Nation and legitimising them, they’re making a very big political mistake. And also, the policies that they're supporting are wrong. Leaving aside the political gamesmanship of it - as a matter of principle and morality - that type of policy, of animosity, hatred, and stirring up division among people in Australia, is absolutely the antithesis of what leadership is all about.
HOST: Before we let you go you said you were not involved in any way, but would you get involved with the centrist party if you were tapped on the shoulder?
TURNBULL: Well, I'd see. I'm a free agent. I am still a member of the Liberal Party. We’re all free. But I think politics would be healthier if there was more competition at the centre, I really do. I'm 71, not 51. So it's really up to others to take the lead on this. And the logical people to do that, obviously, are people who are already in Parliament who have demonstrated that this type of centrist, small-l liberal approach is one that finds support with their electorates.
HOST: Malcolm Turnbull, we appreciate your time on The Briefing.
TURNBULL: Yeah, thanks so much.
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