ABC Radio Sydney (702) — Malcolm Turnbull interviewed by Hamish Macdonald, 18 September 2026
HAMISH MACDONALD: As Western Sydney Airport opens to the public, a milestone which has been decades in the making. I can think back to my teenage years when we were debating where a second Sydney airport would go. Today, at a forum in Parramatta, Sydneysiders are coming together to unravel the story of how our city's second airport came to be. It's an interesting moment to be discussing this, as the city wrangles with all sorts of big plans and developments being challenged in various parts of the city. Can we pull off a big project in greater Sydney?
The former Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and former Liberal Minister for Cities and Urban Infrastructure, Paul Fletcher, both played a role in getting the project to where it is today, and will lead the discussion. Though, I should say they credit governments of other persuasions as well with getting Sydney to this point. Malcolm Turnbull is here this morning.
Good morning to you, Malcolm.
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Good morning, Hamish, how are you?
HAMISH MACDONALD: Yeah, very well, thanks. I've had a look at your piece, where you've shared the story of how this came to be. And you actually credit the Hawke government with this, as well as your side of government? Why?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, the Hawke government bought the land, starting in 1986, at Badgerys Creek. They bought about 1,700 hectares. And in fact they announced that construction was about to start imminently, and Bob Collins went out and turned the first sod. But nothing happened after that, and then in the 1990s, after the third runway at Sydney Airport at Mascot was opened, a ‘no airport noise’ political movement began, both in the inner city - which nearly cost Anthony Albanese the chance of getting into Parliament in 1996, because they campaigned very heavily against Labor there - but it also became very active in Western Sydney. And so the Labor Party shifted from having been buying the land and wanting the airport to go there, to actually being opposed to having a second airport in the Sydney Basin. And that actually became part of their party platform in 2004.
Now, the Liberals in the '80s were supportive of the second airport there, but in the '90s they too switched against it because of the noise issue in Western Sydney. But John Howard, at least, did not sell the land so that was the one good thing he did about the second airport. What he also did was when he sold Sydney Airport at Mascot in 2001, he gave the purchaser a right of first refusal to build any second airport within 100 kilometres of the Sydney GPO. So, nothing much happened for decades, and then in 2013 the Abbott government was elected, and Tony Abbott said, "we should go ahead with the airport at Badgerys Creek." But Abbott was of the view, or at least the bureaucracy and the Ministers were of the view, that the only way to do that was with Sydney Airport, the owners of Mascot, which was crazy. Why would you want two airports in the same city belonging to the same company? But they felt that the Howard deal, the right of first refusal, had locked them in. And there were spectacular subsidies being proposed, like a four-billion-dollar cheap loan for 40 years…really crazy stuff, I was horrified by it in Abbott's Cabinet.
Nothing had been done by the time I became PM, and we looked at the agreements and concluded there was a way to get around the right of first refusal in the sense that we could comply with it, but end up with the Commonwealth building the second airport. That was the only alternative to giving a huge subsidy, and that's what we did. Paul Fletcher was the Minister. We set WSA Co up. So I think it's interesting - thirty years apart, the two critical decisions that made it happen were Hawke buying the land, and my government…
HAMISH MACDONALD: — and you wriggling out of the contract?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, we didn't wriggle out, but we complied with it. But it was legally challenging. But, Paul and I are both lawyers.
HAMISH MACDONALD: I wonder what you think would be the mark of this second airport being a success? Obviously, at the moment, the state government's been working to try and ensure that major airlines are in there, there hasn't been the really big commercial airlines coming on that I think some anticipated. I think the Premier was in India recently, and there was some anticipation that maybe Air India would agree to be there from the start. That doesn't seem to have transpired yet, anyway. What needs to happen for this to really change Sydney?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Firstly, it's not just the number of flights that come in on the first day. This is long-term infrastructure, that airport will be there for a hundred years, probably more, and so it will take time. It's really an engine for growth. The big objective of my government was - and this was carried out through the Western Sydney City Deal, which Lucy gave alot of inspiration to - the concept of a Western Parkland City, and the big economic driver for that Western Parkland City is the airport. And of course you link it with the rail, the Metro - it's running a bit late, but it'll be finished in a year or so - that goes from St Marys, down through the airport, into Bradfield, formerly known as the Aerotropolis, which again was Defence land that I made available for that. And so the whole idea is to provide an activation of jobs and opportunities right through Western Sydney so it's not just a commuter belt, with people trudging in and out of Parramatta or the CBD.
HAMISH MACDONALD: So, to make it all sing, to sort of realise the vision, should there be a commitment to additional Metro, for example? Obviously, as you point out, the Metro will get there within a year, but there are arguments about whether the rest of Western Sydney should be more connected to the new airport. There are clearly gaps in the broader plan. Should state governments, or even the federal government, be committing funding to deliver more interconnectedness to make this actually work?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: The answer is yes. Ideally, the airport Metro that begins at St Marys should connect to the Metro that currently finishes at Tallawong, and it currently terminates at Bradfield, just south of the airport itself, and it should go further south down at least to Leppington, and ideally to Campbelltown.
It was interesting at the time we were doing the City Deal with Gladys Berejiklian, there were people in the State Government who did not like the idea of a Metro from St Marys down to the airport, a north–south Metro. They wanted something that just came from Parramatta, and they were thinking, in terms of connecting the Western Sydney Airport to the City of Sydney and the eastern perimeter
HAMISH MACDONALD: As opposed to a new centre of gravity.
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Correct. This was Lucy's - the greater Sydney Commission's - great insight: to say, hang on, we've got to stop this whole hub-and-spoke approach to Sydney, we've got to be able to have development that goes north–south, not just from the east to the west.
HAMISH MACDONALD: Malcolm Turnbull is here, the former prime minister. I wanted to ask you about just getting big, visionary projects up off the ground in Sydney that's, I guess, the story of Western Sydney Airport. There's been a lot of debate this week about the future of Town Hall Square, the State Government basically intervening over the plans of Clover Moore, the Mayor. A $150 million project seems to have just suddenly ground to a halt overnight. What's your view? Should the State Government stick to its lane? Should there be a Town Hall Square?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, I think the answer is yes. It's got some challenges, obviously, because it faces west, and so that's going to make it a very hot place in summer so there are particular challenges with its location. But this has been on the agenda of the City Council for decades.
HAMISH MACDONALD: So the State Government should respect the right of the Mayor to make this decision?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Yes. Obviously the state government has enormous power and enormous responsibility, but this is not a new idea, or a thought bubble. Some of these buildings - I was talking to Lucy about it this morning, she was Lord Mayor in 2003–04 - but some of that land like the Woolworths Building was bought when Frank Sartor was the Mayor. So this has been part of the vision for the city for probably close to 30 years. And so I think it's a bit strange for the State Government to say, "oh, hang on, we don't think that's a good idea" - I mean, they've really got a challenge to make a case against it, because it's had support for decades.
And look, can I just say, Hamish, we do get big things built in Sydney. Look at the terrific success of the Sydney Metro, for example. So I think we can do big things in Australia. Can I just make another point about Western Sydney Airport, and it relates to the Metro. Western Sydney Airport, it's a big project, it finished on time and on budget. The north-west section of the Sydney Metro, from Chatswood to Tallawong, was also finished on time and on budget. In each case, they split the project up, the work up into effectively bite-sized chunks, and had very intense contract administration from the client - from Western Sydney Airport, in the case of the airport. With so many projects running over time and over budget, there's an urgent need to look at the projects that are completed on time and on budget, and those that are not, and ask ourselves what we've done right, and what we haven't done right. We've got a challenge with that, I think it's a crisis.
HAMISH MACDONALD: A quick thought for you on the migration policy announced yesterday by the government. Obviously there's intense political debate about this at a federal level, and a strong reaction from farmers this morning, from the tourism industry, from the education sector. Do you think Australia has lost control of its migration system? Is that at the core of this?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: No, I don't think we have. I thought it was an excellent speech by Tony Burke - really outstanding, he explained things, he did exactly what a Minister should do, and it was really educational. There were things that most people didn't understand about our education system.
Look, the problem is people say they want to reduce migration, but then when you say, "well, where are you going to cut it?" they can all nominate the areas you shouldn't cut. So the reality is there's no category of migration that you're going to cut that isn't going to have some people objecting from a business or economic point of view. It seems to me like a sensible set of measures. Frankly, saying this in a crude political sense I think the Coalition would be better off getting together with the Government, agreeing on reforms to migration, and doing so practically, and then having a united front against Hanson, and then Labor and the Liberals can go hammer and tongs on tax and economic management and all the other issues.
ENDS
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