Monday, 3 December 2018
E&OE…
The Morrison government is in even more turmoil this morning following a quite spectacular intervention by former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull in a pre-selection battle in New South Wales. Malcolm Turnbull has reportedly contacted members of the party's state executive urging them to renege on a factional deal that would have saved the Conservative backbencher Craig Kelly from almost certain defeat at the hands of a moderate challenger in the pre-selection for the seat of Hughes; Kent Johns. Malcolm Turnbull's actions could set off even deeper factional tensions within the Liberal Party. Malcolm Turnbull welcome back to Breakfast.
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Fran it's good to be with you. I apologise for my flu
FRAN KELLY
That’s alright, thank you for joining us. Two years ago when you were Prime Minister you stepped in to save Craig Kelly from being overthrown at preselection. This time you've intervened to try and help knock him off. Why?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well it's important that, it is not a question of knocking him off. It's important that the democratic processes of the Liberal Party be allowed to operate. What is being proposed to the state executive is that the state executive should re-endorse Mr Kelly, so that the Liberal Party members’ of Hughes do not have the opportunity to have their say. Now we've just had a very long debate in New South Wales and the Liberal Party, about the importance of democracy and grassroot members’ participation. And in my view, and I say this as a Liberal Party member of New South Wales, in my view the party should allow the preselection process to take its course and then Mr Kelly will either succeed or not, depending on the views of the Liberal Party members whose candidate he is.
FRAN KELLY
But why is it different than you as Prime Minister making assertions on Craig Kelly's behalf with the preselectors. Why is that different?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well I'm not making assertions as Prime Minister.
FRAN KELLY
When you were Prime Minister?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well the circumstances in 2016 were contentious then, but the point of the matter is - what is being put to me is by some members of the state executive is that Mr Kelly has threatened to go to the crossbench and quote ‘bring down the government’. Now let me put, make a couple of points here.
Firstly, I'm not aware that Mr Kelly has made that threat. I don't believe that he would do that. I don't believe he would either go to the crossbench or bring down the government. So but if assuming he has made that threat then that is the worst and the weakest reason not to have a pre-selection process. So all I've asked, and I was asking members of the state executive to whom I'm entitled to speak as a member, I've asked them to stick to the democratic process, and have a proper preselection. Now several of them have chose to share that, those discussions with the media last night and that's why I put out a statement to clarify what I've said.
FRAN KELLY
And what they shared with the media is that you're quoted as saying that Scott Morrison is quote ‘just trying to keep his arse on C1’. That's the Commonwealth car. In other words you believe Scott Morrison's intervened just to try and save himself. But isn't he trying to save the government isn't that what Prime Ministers are supposed to do?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well, Prime Ministers obviously try to keep the government together, but the fact of the matter is that if Mr Kelly were to, if assuming he had made that threat, which we don't know for sure, assuming he made it and assuming he carried it out then the responsibility for that would be his, and his alone. Giving in to threats of this kind is really I mean it is the antithesis of good government giving in to threats of that kind and I might say, just as a matter of arithmetic for those that are interested in these things, assuming even assuming Mr Kelly were to go to the crossbench and even assuming he were to vote for a motion of no confidence, both propositions I think extremely unlikely - that would not be enough to bring down the government. So, you know what is being used as a means of trying to railroad the state executive into not having a preselection a normal preselection process, a democratic process is firstly a claim that the threat has been made with no evidence that it has been made with consequences of quote ‘bringing down the government’ unquote, which simply are not right. I mean the fact of the matter is the government has the support on confidence and supply from most of the crossbench already. So if Mr Kelly were to go to the crossbench and vote with Labor and with the Greens and with Andrew Wilkie assuming they were to for a motion of no confidence, it would not be enough to bring down the government.
FRAN KELLY
So, let me just check is that quote that I read out then is that accurate is that what you said that this is Scott Morrison trying to save his own backside?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well look, the discussion…
FRAN KELLY
Is that what you think?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
I’m not going to go into that Fran, but I'll just make this clear. There is a very lively discussion in Liberal Party circles, again which you know I regret to see reported in the newspaper in the way it has been. But it seems to be the tenor of the times. But there is a legitimate discussion and concern about the way in which the brand damage arising from the federal leadership change in August, has impacted on the New South Wales State Government in the Wagga by election and the Victorian state election obviously very, very, significantly.
And so there is a lot of people in New South Wales a lot of New South Wales Liberals who believe it would be in the party's interest for the Federal Government to go to an election before the New South Wales Government set election date of 23 March, so that Gladys Berejiklian who is leading an outstanding government of real and considerable achievement, can go to the polls and be judged on her record rather than being hit by the brand damage that arose from the very destructive, pointless, shameful, leadership change in Canberra on the 24th of August.
FRAN KELLY
But how are you as a former Prime Minister helping with that brand damage by ringing around lobbying MPs and others and making these accusations against the Prime Minister?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Hey Fran, I've not made any accusations against the Prime Minister. I've got to say that he's trying to keep his assets he won.
FRAN KELLY
Did you say that he’s just trying to keep his arse on C1?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
I'm not going to go into that but if Matt Keane can if he wants to you know report versions of private conversations he can. But plainly the Prime Minister's determination is to stay in government for as long as he possibly can. He’s entitled to that,
FRAN KELLY
Do you criticise him for that?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well my view. Again, I'm a retired member of parliament and just a member of the Liberal Party but since everyone else feels free to express their political commentary I shall do so. My view is that it would be manifestly in the best interests and prospects of the Morrison government to go to the polls as soon as it can after the summer break. In fact, my intention and Scott's intention for that matter, prior to my being removed as Prime Minister was to go to the polls on the 2nd of March. That would be exactly three weeks before the New South Wales state election but he's got Morrison has got to judge the right timing for an election.
But you know you would understand and the media is full of it that there is a real concern in New South Wales Liberal circles that a very good outstanding government led by Gladys Berejiklian is going to have its prospects of success diminished because of the brand damage to the Liberal Party caused by the leadership change in August. And that is a legitimate matter now as far as I'm concerned, I'm entitled to speak to state executive members I'm entitled speak to anyone I like. But as a member of the Liberal Party I'm certainly entitled to speak to state executive members. I regret that a number of at least one of them Mr Kean, chose to give a rather colourful version of that discussion to the media.
But you know, the alternative would be for me to become a Trappist monk and I don't think that's reasonable either.
FRAN KELLY
You do know that many of your colleagues see all of these moves as you trying to get the government into Opposition as Barnaby Joyce said trying to deliver us to opposition. I mean one view is that you're trying to step in so that Craig Kelly is not saved so he does go to the crossbench and that might further destabilize the government and force an early election.
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Unfortunately Fran that is that is what I've described as attribution bias, that is blaming other people for the consequences of your own actions. I mean the Government's electoral woes if that's the right term, are a consequence of the decision made to change the leadership on the 24th of August. I mean the polls whether it's the opinion polls or the election results tell that story. It was as I said at the time a destructive, mad, pointless exercise and the Australian people have been appalled by it and I know that there's been this proposition put around that no one's really interested in the leadership change or the internal machinations of the Liberal Party. The fact is they are and it has done a lot of brand damage to the Liberal Party and you know that's something the party is going to have to work through. But there's no point being mealy mouthed about it or pretending that that damage hasn't been done.
FRAN KELLY
Is there any point though you pretending this isn’t some degree of payback for someone like Craig Kelly who helped lead the charge against the NEG and you?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
No not at all, not at all. I think this is a matter of principle and I believe that in particularly given the lengthy debate we've had in New South Wales about the importance of grassroot members having their say and you know the conventions and conferences we've had on this issue it is really important that the Liberal Party members in Hughes have their say. And look I would say that in any respect of any member. But to give in to a threat to quote ‘bring down the government’ by someone who claims to be quote ‘a real liberal’ unquote, is extraordinary.
I mean what the Prime Minister should be doing is if Mr Kelly has made that threat is stand up to him and say well if you want to go to the crossbench and create trouble that's your responsibility.
I mean, you know people have got to take responsibility for their own actions just like the people who are responsible for my removal as Prime Minister are the people that voted to remove me in the party room. You know they are the ones that are responsible. Some of them try to blame it all on people in the media. Well the media certainly has an influence on politics. But ultimately members of parliament have to take responsibility for their own actions.
FRAN KELLY
But people would say some of your colleagues or former colleagues would say you have to take responsibility for your own actions and when you speak out like this and when it's able to be leaked that you bad mouth the Prime Minister or that…
MALCOLM TURNBULL
I have not that bad mouth the Prime Minister. I've given the Prime Minister; I've given Scott Morrison considerable support. In fact I've given him considerable support and I've given him considerable advice, good advice I might add.
FRAN KELLY
Can I just ask you then because you as I say some of your colleagues are suspicious and that's been played out in the media, did you encourage Julia Banks for instance to leave the party and go sit on the crossbench?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
No, Look I appreciate Fran I know there are some people who think that women can't make their own decisions. But Julia Banks made her own decision.
She is a formidable, experienced, strong woman. She is a lawyer, corporate lawyer. She came into Parliament with a great track record in the private sector and she's made her own conscientious decision and I think whether you regret it or not, whether one regrets it or not, it's one that she's made and she explained it I thought very powerfully in the Parliament.
FRAN KELLY
And you promised not to be a miserable ghost you know your colleagues will see this as you being a miserable ghost don’t you?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well look people can…
FRAN KELLY
Why aren’t you being that?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Well for a start I'm not in the Parliament. I mean both Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott after they ceased to be Prime Minister stayed in the Parliament and did everything they could to overthrow their successor. Right? I’ve left the parliament. I am not a threat to anyone there. I’m not a threat to Scott Morrison or anyone. I'm not even eligible, so I'm out. But I am an Australian citizen, I'm a member of the Liberal Party . I'm entitled to express my views. I spoke to several members of the state executive yesterday as I was entitled to do.
I'm very disappointed that at least one of them; Mr Matt Keane chose to share a colourful version of that discussion. And not an entirely accurate description I might add - with the media. Why he chose to do that is completely beyond me. But if you get to the point where you say if you if you're putting to me if you're saying to me I should never discuss political matters with anybody because they could be leaked to the media - that's a ridiculous proposition. So those people who choose to put private discussions into the media should take responsibility for it. The reason I've come on your program this morning is I want to make it very clear what I've said, what my views are so that I'm not going to be misrepresented in the sort of increasingly paranoid descriptions of politics that you see in some of the media, particularly in The Australian and on Sky News. The proposition that I am responsible for the government's electoral woes is absurd. The fact is when I was Prime Minister we were two points behind on the Newspoll level pegging effectively, and we were four points ahead on our own private polling. But we know that's not the government's position today.
FRAN KELLY
Okay.
MALCOLM TURNBULL
And so the people who should take should take responsibility for that, are the people who moved to remove me as Prime Minister. Peter Dutton, Greg Hunt and Matthias Cormann and others, Cabinet Ministers and of course ultimately the members who voted accordingly within the party room. They have to take responsibility for what they did.
FRAN KELLY
Malcolm Turnbull, Just very briefly and finally you do intend them to be remain an active member of the Liberal Party?
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Sure, absolutely. I've been a member of the Liberal Party for many, many years.
FRAN KELLY
Malcolm Turnbull, thank you very much for joining us.
MALCOLM TURNBULL
Thanks a lot.
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