Videos on Problem Gambling
Published on: November 10, 2011
As Parliament debates various proposals to address problem gambling, many businesses, lobby groups and people will have different views on the best policy.
All videos are welcomed — please email any new videos to malcolm.turnbull.mp@aph.gov.au. Your opinion counts!
Clubs Australia executive director Anthony Ball sent a video outlining the effect mandatory pre-commitment will have on clubs and Clubs Australia’s preferred policies to treat problem gambling.
Australian Christian Churches Gambling Taskforce chairman Tim Costello welcolmed the launch of the Coalition’s online survey into Problem Gambling and argues the case for a maximum bet of $1.
31 Responses to “Videos on Problem Gambling”
According to my own experience participants in the survey must be under a certain age to complete it. Or must not EVER engage in a little flutter of up to $5 two or three times a year.
Gambling is a personal choice and so is addiction. If it becomes a society’s problem, however, then pokies should be banned altogether.
Pokies have become a real problem for a lot of people, and so let’s get them fully banned.
I belive governments SHOULD NOT get involved in
peoples gambling habits,but i do agree that all
pokies should have a $1.oo limit on them.
$1 limit is a good idea but a better idea is to get ATM machines out of the clubs and hotels because it is too easy for people to go get more money if they run out. To actually have to walk out of the venue is a circuit breaker!
I agree with Marion Ivanic remove the atm machines and definately $1.00 limits
Removing ATMs is not a reasonable solution. Most bars only accept cash, what if people don’t have the cash on them? Same as for food/coffee purchases under the eftpos limit of usually $10. Also for membership fees, they usually need cash. It would cause a massive inconvenience.
I can remember a time when only small amounts of money could be used in these machines with small wins and certainly there were no ATM’s nearby, it was only when amounts increased gambling problems increased – the answer seems obvious to me!
Something needs to be done about this very serious problem as soon as possible. Lets take the politics out of this. The experts say remove the high loss machines and impose compulsory pre-commitments. Its obscene that the industry is able to justify such harm to society with relatively small donations to sports and community groups. Thank you Tim. Thank you Malcolm.
What, after implementing either precommitment or a $1.00 limit or both, can possibly be done to stop the inevitable migration of problem gamblers from the well monitored & taxed social environment of a community club to the un-monitorable, untaxable, untraceable, antisocial world of online gaming which demands the use of credit cards?
40% of poker machine income may be derived from addictive gambling behaviour but this information doesn’t tell us what percentage is “destructive addictive behaviour”. The vast majority of addictive gamblers are not participating in destructive behaviour but are individuals that choose gambling as their form of entertainment and can afford to make that choice.
There is a big difference between limiting the income earning capabilities of a privately own establishment and a community owned club. Clubs profits are returned to the community via donations, staff wages, cheap entertainment, discounted food, free function rooms for charities and sponsoring sporting organisations just to name a few.
Regulation of poker machines in the community club industry via mandatory or voluntary precommitment will only result in the migration of ALL these addictive gambling behaviours to offshore online betting organisations where no one will know or care which ones are participating in destructive behaviour and which are participating in non-destructive, affordable entertainment. ALL the money will be lost to both the gambler and the community and no one will know until after the damage is done.
An insightful analogy would be the tobacco industry. EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER of the tobacco industry is an addict with fatal consequences for all. Most of these addicts can afford their addiction and make an informed decision to participate. We as a society continue to let them do so with similar restrictions on age, advertising and availability as the poker machine industry is subjected to. I do not know of a single tobacco company owned by a community organisation yet billions in profit is still allowed. Mostly to foreign owned private enterprise. We should not allow the same to happen to our nations gaming entertainment profits.
Addictive behaviour is a regrettable legacy of human evolution and as such cannot be eradicated from society. Destructive addictive behaviour needs to be monitored and minimised for the benefit of both the victims and the community clubs. Forcing the victims into hiding does not stop them from being victims.
I believe that the vast majority of staff, management and members of community clubs would participate in any endeavour likely to minimise destructive addictive gambling but precommitment and $1.00 capped betting applied to community clubs and not to online gambling facilities is not likely to minimise anything except local social participation.
Wow William! All you forgot to say is “experimental technology, won’t work”. Maybe plain packaging on pokies since you want to use that analogy??
Thanks Malcolm for supporting Tim in his struggle against problem gambling.
A liberal politician with a heart, who would have thought!!!!!
For those interested in the topic, this blog is worth a read:
http://captainturtle.blogspot.com/2011/10/me-at-rsl-agm.html
Stop making laws to control behaviour!! This is a “nanny state” policy!! Where else will there be a law passed to control gambling? On the horses? online? at bingo? C’mon…… Pass a law that polititians can be charged for lying to the constituents, now that is something that I would like to see. Wilkie is just trying to get a name for himself and is using his vote in parliament for exactly that!
I’m afraid that my vote lies with Joyful’s sentiments, despite a well reasoned argument by Tim Costello. The BIGGEST problem that we have in this Country is the continuing removal from people of responsibility for their own actions. We see the results of this in ever more stringent controls on the majority, to protect the minority from themselves, and I have had enough of it. No one forces people to use poker machines, and the majority of ordinary users should not be further regulated to protect those who have no self-control.
The ‘nanny state’ description is fake. The pre-commitment is all about people taking responsibility; Here’s the words of Gary Banks, Chairman of the Productivity Commission;
“Far from being paternalistic, pre-commitment is a mechanism to ensure consumer sovereignty. Gamblers get enhanced choice because they have an ability to set their own limits at a time when they are most rational, to control their behaviour during their more irrational times. Gamblers could choose high limits and never alter them, or they could choose low ones. But no one would be telling them how they had to play — the spectre of ‘big brother’ is a contrived one.”
Am pleased to join in . William Millard’s note 1410hrs covers most of my thoughts and we would all admire the intention to assist with problem Gambling .But !
The On line gambling will increase and one mustn’t assume that an addict would not have the intelligence or drive to replace club attendance with on line action.I know a few addicts who hold very senior positions and as such are very computer literate. We all provide credit card details for air flights etc easily.
The world of Addiction re drugs or Gambling is a dreadful one and more so the alcohol addict where family violence and sexual havoc is a greater scourge yet we do not close down the pubs or limit the sales
Perhaps a trial for two years with the $1 limit would be a compromise.Culminating with a serious analysis of sustained employment figures or otherwise in the Clubs. I of course can not substantiate the gut feeling but I presume the problem gamblers do frequent the Club environment. Why don’t we put a limit on gaming machines in Pubs and refuse more liscences all around.
One last point ( and please do not take this as racist )There are many wealthy Asians who frequent our Casinos who gamble large amounts of money with out a worry and are not anywhere near being problem Gamblers. Of minor interest to my contribution is that I am a thoroughbred owner and hardly ever play gaming machines
I am happy to join in also. Taking ATM’s out of reach of players is a good idea. Limiting the amount a person can put into the machine. $1. machines and counselling, while closing off the poker machine area for 6 hours is a good idea. Gambling can be an addiction and once somebody sits on a machine who has a problem, will sit there for hours and not worry about their money. Prehaps Centerlink should limit their money if they use it for the poker machine.
Hello Malcolm – I applaud your effort but does not having a “pro-machine” video/viewpoint indicate a lack of balance? Personally, I have found the “pro” view to be a self-serving proposition at the best of times but that is for others to judge – if they had the opportunity.
Problem gambling is an individual personal problem like all of the others (drink/drugs/self-abuse) – the community as a whole has far bigger problems concerning the future for young, the old and the employment of all in Australia in the “technical” future and especially for those who do not drink. gamble or take drugs – education and jobs/productive capacity is fundamental to the Australian peoples’ future.
PS: How come the mining companies can “excavate” Australia & sell it off for their shareholders benefit without a somewhat “notional” return to Australians? See Norway & North Sea oil.
If memory serves me correctly, John Howard sold of NW Shelf gas to China on a 25 year contract at a fixed price equivalent to USD25 per barrel of oil thermal equivalent – how smart was that!? – and, what happened to the $$$$! – fed into the greatest “pokie” machine of all – “elections”!
I hope this helps if only to point out that problem gambling is not about the “real game” for Australia’s future.
The Party should stand for more than the minority “social issues” and take a broader view, especially broader than the negativity currently expounded.
Kind regards,
John Purcell
Why are we not doing the obvious things first, to prevent over-spending on pokies? Give people spending records that ALL consumers deserve and which our law recognizes as being important safety tools to help us with budgeting….then they may be able to actually SEE what they are losing…in time to slow up before addiction hits. While gamblers are left to guess their losses they will always kid themselves! Meanwhile they will dissipate family-owned assets. Monthly spending statements, like phone bills…would force pokies users and their families to take more notice of how much they are tossing down a pokie!
Great outline and summary thanks .
What role has the federal government got though. In a small country town the drip feed to the new rich clubs and from the new poor is obvious and your actions commendable Http://ondewolf.blogspot.com
I wasn’t aware of this part of your portfolio, Malcolm.
Both Liberals and liberals should support the notion of pre-commitment as a pro-liberty solution to the difficulty of sticking to good decisions. Pre-commitment done well (easy to use, low cost, effective) can enable people to stick to the decisions (e.g. to limit losses) that they make with the reflective part of their brain. Being slave to the ‘impulse’ part of the brain is not real freedom.
see http://www.iconicexchange.com/2011/11/11/pre-commitment-save-yourself-from-yourself/
As a Clinical Psychologist I have seen the damage problem gambling can do. I do not like going to pubs with these machines in them but nearly all do. What ever happened to live music in pubs? We lived in Perth for a few years and life goes on without pokies over there just fine and there’s more live music in the pubs.
A good way to move forward…get on board Wilkie
Our Family became a victim of a gambling addict in a law firm who stole clients money for thirteen years remaining undetected by following regulation.
What should have been a simple insurance claim against the Law firm became a full scale War by some victims when the Law Society and South Australian Government decided victims should be partly compenstated by grabbing all assets and money not effected and share it.
We fought for over five years at huge mental, physical, personal and Financial costs because the system in all States when money is stolen in law firms was to prevent and minimize claims.
Those who made the legislation and who had responsibility for protection of lawyers trust accounts had the ability to destroy victims of Gambling related crimes in law firms.
I went on to become a very load advocate for real consumer safety when entrusting funds and assets to law firms and this is still on going.
My issue is that I became aware of many others who suffered from thefts to fund the gambling addicts addiction and I was sent figures showing over $100,000,000 of individuals, families and companies money has been stolen over the last few years.
Recent thefts that I am aware of, Lawyer, $900,000 clients funds.
Lawyer, $750,000 estate theft,
Winery, sugested loss $600,000.
Others I am aware of refused to speak about the loss and wanted no involvement with what i proposed.
The Gambling Industry is creating thieves out of people who normally would never be criminals and it is the Gambling Industry and States that benifit from others money that would never ever be used for Gambling.
Yet that money is accepted as normal income to the industry.
Victims suffer because of others greed and in most cases are forced to wear the loss or when lawyers get involved the costs often exceed the theft, either way victims keep loosing and keep suffering more harm and financial loss.
I am suggesting that the whole Gambling Industry is made to finance a first resort fund with no caps or restrictions .
The Victims after determining losses and “”all”"” costs hand the bill to their first resort fund.
Having a fund with no caps or restrictions hands responsibility with the liability and this will have greater effect on the Industry to keep an eye on who is spending what and where the funds are from.
The Problem is Governments and Political parties are fed by the Industry and when big money is the issue the interests of the public are not considered as self interests are guarded at all costs,even if it kills the victim.
I want the idea made public as to date my idea has been treated as contemptable by the gambling industry and My federal and State Politicians.
Pokies create the bigger no. of thieves but the issue must include all types of Gambling.
On line Gambling in my opinion should have been prevented as the losses will be accumulated there after Pokies are restricted.
Even at a dollar the losses for some could be higher than a thousand a day.
Tony Abbott raved about counselling but is he going to fund thousands of councsellors I think not.
But the Liberals need to take the issue seriously and make real policy that addresses the problem and protects the innocent victims of gambling created thieves.
John Crane. gj.mk.crane@bigpond.com
$1.00 may not be the lowest cost solution. Many machines have multipliers that result in a $1.25 bet . This could be done at minimal programming cost per machine, whereas settinga $1.00 max bet cold be more expensive to programme. $1.25 maximum bet is the way to go I suggest.
The proposal will not work. It is ill conceived and will cause more problems than it will ever solve. The States will have their income decimated by this. Problem gamblers (if they exist) will simply go to some other venue like on line betting.
The cost to the clubs will cause many to close because of the costs in introducing this system It is estimated at $5000.00 per machine, and most clubs simply don’t have it. It must be voted out. It will also affect the community as large amounts of money must be paid out.
I couldn’t agree more with William Millard’s post above. If this ridiculous regulation goes ahead, it will be just like prohibition of alcohol in the USA – if people want to drink they will drink. If people want to gamble, they’ll gamble. They’ll just do it illegally and the regulation will end up causing more harm than that which existed in the first place.
This attempt to further regulate gambling is just another example of what has sadly become commonplace in Australia nowadays. The government is again taking the reigns and sticking its big fat head in the way, getting involved in a societal problem which should be dealt with by society on an individual level. Yet, the government thinks that by wasting more money, setting up another bureau to act as a further sinkhole of taxpayer dollars, and by passing more prohibitive legislation, they’ll solve the problem of gambling addiction. All they’ll do is waste more taxpayer dollars, and make gambling more dangerous for those people who want to gamble.
Yes, gambling is a problem for many people – everyone is sympathetic to those who are adversely affected by problem gambling. The problem is easily identifiable. However, it is very short-sighted to think that we can just solve the problem by introducing more regulations – this will just result in problem gamblers doing it over the internet or by other means.
Couldn’t disagree more with William Millard and Aneurin Griffiths comments above.
Yes, regulating something will move some people to do other things, but do we use this logic to legalise heroin or other social harms. No, because its a rubbish argument.
Pokies raise more revenue than ALL other forms of gambling combined. The ‘industry’ has ballooned with the liberalisation of the 1990’s. Oz is home to 20% of the worlds pokies, taking some $12 billion annually.
Pokies are a very particular form of gambling. High repetition, and betting features all work to get people to play longer and spend more than they intended.
Pokies are damaging individuals, families and communities. The States are hooked on the tax revenue and won’t act unless forced. The Federal Parliament needs to act.
Although I support MPC and think its a good, workable system, I think the Clubs have been very successful in attacking it as a ‘Licence to Punt’.
A $1 betting limit would gain wide community support and should be pursued.
Keith (aka Captainturtle)
PS. I’m OK with $1.25 if that’s more practical
PPS. Thanks Staven for mentioning my humble Blog.
PPPS. Thanks Malcolm for hosting this survey and the discussion.
I can’t believe the advice and views of so many people that have no experience in poker machines. Less stick with facts. 99.5 % of the pop gamble resposiblbly . Clubs are a so heavily regulated and really do put back into the community. Directly and indirectly. People play for entertainment . It might not be your form of entertainment , but it is for many and not people with no money to pay bills etc. Problem gambling has been falling in NSW over the last decade. Mainly due to the programs put in place by Clubs NSW. These are facts that some of the holier than thou do not like to hear. Yes, more can always be done. More counseling and 3rd party involment sounds good to me. Let’s not kill of a fantastic industry , particulaly in regional areas. Sorry Costello , but I’d prefer to hear what the Salvo ’s or Father Chris Riley has to say. They have a far more balanced view . As I said , let stick to facts. Hey, what about obesity and mental illness issues !
I applaud the actions taken by Andrew Wilke, Tim Costello and others. There are many initiatives that have been taken over the years that have helped prevent unnecessary deaths and misery – the wearing of seat belts; the random breath testing to stop drunken drivers and the associated deaths, maiming and trauma; the wearing of bike helmets; Laws introduced to help prevent injury and disease such as the removal of asbestos in brake linings etc; reporting of child abuse and many others.
It’s obvious to most intelligent adults, that there’s a strong need to do something. I’d personally like to see poker machines removed from clubs and pubs, and the re-introduction of more live entertainment, but I’m realistic enough to realise that it won’t happen.
To reduce all poker machines to a $1 input at a time would be a good place to start, with the least cost and inconvenience. I also believe that all ATM’s should be removed – it’s too easy as it is now. I also believe that clubs should stop serving drinks to people playing poker machines, as this would mean that people would have to leave, and hopefully break that cycle?
Too many families are suffering the effects of these parasitical innovations – Western Australia survives quite well without them? Governments don’t come clean about our monies handed over to clubs via tax lurks and perks. In NSW, the O’Farrell Govt has recently cut tax payments by over $30 million per year. I find this disgusting, particularly as people caring for children with disabilities can’t even afford respite care – just one day or two each week or fortnight? Our priorities need attention???
The Clubs can’t argue that these proposals won’t work, while whining at the same time re the monies they’ll lose? Doesn’t this mean that they’re using monies caused by peoples’ misery, and sometimes death!
Good on you Malcolm for supporting this cause in spite of your colleagues’ objections!
Pokies reform is needed. I have run gambling help services in Queensland for many years. Limiting access to pokies is an effective and workable strategy to address problem gambling. Problem gambling is real. The pokies hurt people, they hurt marriages and they hurt families; pokies are bad for other business in town! The industry already have loyalty cards that track their members playing the pokies, so the card is not a big deal.