Dumb slogans vs rational debate on sovereign wealth funds – or the peculiar case of Terry McCrann
Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, so no doubt the Melbourne libertarian economist Sinclair Davidson was flattered when he saw Terry McCrann this morning write in the Herald Sun:
“Anyone who understood and believed in the free market system would know that there is no such thing as unsustainable tax cuts; only unsustainable expenditures.”
A line Terry McCrann had taken from Sinclair’s Catallaxy Files post of yesterday where he wrote: “There is no such thing as unsustainable tax cuts, only unsustainable spending.”
McCrann, like Sinclair Davidson the day before, were responding to a blog I had posted on the weekend about arguments for a new sovereign wealth fund.
Without resorting to the slogans Terry now substitutes for reason, let me subject this catchy assertion to some clinical analysis.
How do we define “unsustainable” in the context of revenue or expenditure? Obviously spending is unsustainable if it is unsupported by an acceptable level of taxation, and public borrowings rise over time (ask the Europeans or Americans what that feels like). Equally tax cuts are unsustainable if they reduce revenues to a level where they are insufficient to support necessary government expenditure.
Of course a key question is about the appropriate level of spending. Different governments make different choices. But at a minimum let’s assume we want to keep paying for the PBS and Medicare; the age, single parenting and disability pensions; the Australian Defence Force; spending on law and order…I could go on, but you get the point. There is a fairly high level of public spending that nobody currently in Parliament is arguing should be eliminated.
Let me make this point very clearly. The slogan advanced by Sinclair Davidson and Terry McCrann is “there is no such thing as unsustainable tax cuts” (slogans apparently being the new medium for serious political debate). But if we take it seriously, then we are arguing tax cuts which resulted in the Australian Government being unable to pay wages to soldiers would not be unsustainable.
There is always going to be some minimum level of government spending. Therefore there must be a minimum level of taxation needed to sustain it, unless one believes in perpetual budget deficits. Having determined a responsible and necessary level of spending (the Coalition would naturally land on a lower figure than the Labor Party), tax cuts which result in revenues below the level needed to pay for that spending would be unsustainable – they would mean the spending could not be paid for without resorting to borrowing.
Greece is an extreme case: a country where both the level of spending and the level of taxation (which hardly anyone paid) were unsustainable!
McCrann, who presents himself as a serious finance and economic commentator, goes on to observe that the only place the money for a sovereign wealth fund could come from is a Federal Budget surplus.
Well, thanks, Terry. We did know that. Although it can also come from asset sale proceeds – remember the Telstra sale? But let us leave them aside for the purpose of this discussion.
He then asserts we will be lucky ever to see a surplus again, even under an Abbott Government. That is an unduly gloomy appraisal of both our economic prospects and the financial discipline of Tony and the rest of our colleagues.
I don’t have the wisdom of a Herald Sun columnist. But I did experience and participate in the Howard Government, when the Federal Budget enjoyed larger surpluses (particularly in its last three years, when the commodity boom was underway) than the Government or Treasury expected. We were surprised on the upside.
Martin Parkinson has predicted future surpluses will be razor thin for some years, and there is no reason to doubt this is Treasury’s current view. But the Treasury in our time in Government materially and repeatedly underestimated the surpluses that finally eventuated.
So Terry, you may be right – time will tell. But in case history repeats itself and the commodities cycle does continue to favour Australia (particularly once the high levels of depreciation associated with new resources projects that are currently suppressing tax collections in that sector run off) we should be thinking today about how to handle those surpluses tomorrow.
McCrann’s column becomes rather surreal when he goes on to write: “Say a silent prayer – or if you like, a loud one – that Turnbull wasn’t let anywhere near those Budget surpluses that ran through the second half of the Howard-Costello years; and were given back to us in “unsustainable tax cuts”.
“Why, they could’ve been cycled into a sovereign wealth fund – and a Rudd-Gillard-Swan government could have had three or four building the education-style splurges instead of just the $16 billion wasted in one.”
First, I did not assert that Budget surpluses were given back to us in “unsustainable tax cuts”. Secondly, what does he think the Future Fund is? It is a large sovereign wealth fund and it was not the only savings fund, although the largest, created by the Howard Government.
So far from being at odds with the policy of the Howard Government, saving some of future surpluses in a new savings fund would be entirely consistent with our past practice.
But the big point which McCrann (and Sinclair Davidson) ignore is simply this and I will spell it out so that it is very, very clear.
1. Governments, like businesses, can see spikes in revenues when the business cycle booms.
2. These spikes can be particularly high for economies which are commodities based – as Australia’s is in large part.
3. If that cyclical spike in revenues is used to create ongoing increases in spending (increases in benefits for example) which cannot be met from ongoing revenues when the boom subsides then that increase in spending can be described as unsustainable.
4. Equally if that spike in revenues is used to reduce taxes to a level (i.e. by reducing tax rates) such that when the boom subsides the ordinary revenues of government cannot fund its ordinary and necessary expenditures then those tax cuts can be described as unsustainable.
5. One-off infrastructure investments made with the proceeds of mining boom revenues will not create a structural problem (as long as they are in fact fully funded) but as I pointed out in my original post, if they are not cost effective (i.e. have not passed a rigorous cost benefit analysis) they are a poor use of funds which could have been better saved.
Any serious economic commentator would recognise there is a serious issue to be discussed here. But instead Terry McCrann offers slogans and accuses me of being a “serious collectivist” and a “twit”. Well if that is so then the Business Council of Australia should be included in that description as should the Governor of the Reserve Bank.
As Gareth Hutchens wrote in the SMH on February 14: “Support is growing for the creation of a sovereign wealth fund to invest the proceeds of the mining boom.
“The Herald surveyed Australia’s business leaders before BHP Billiton, the world’s largest mining company, posted a half-year profit of $US10.6 billion on Wednesday.”
“The chief executives of Lend Lease, Tabcorp, Mirvac, CSL, Foster’s, Orica and Coca-Cola Amatil, and the chairman of Mirvac, Gloucester Coal and Pacific Brands all favour such a fund.”
“They join the ranks of the chief executives of Commonwealth Bank and Boral, Ralph Norris and Mark Selway, the Amcor managing director, Ken MacKenzie, the chairman of Fairfax Media, Roger Corbett, and the Reserve Bank governor, Glenn Stevens.”
Not to speak of the Howard Government which, as I noted, did set up a sovereign wealth fund and in taking the burden of unfunded future financial obligations off the shoulders of future generations acted responsibly and with great credit compared to the reckless spending of the current Labor Government.
And joining the ranks of collectivist twits (in Mr McCrann’s view) are presumably Peter Costello, the longest serving and most successful Treasurer in Australian history, who supported renewed deposits to the Future Fund or setting up an additional sovereign wealth fund similar to those in other commodity exporters in his column in The Age and Sydney Morning Herald on 14 September. And you can add to the collectivist rabble none other than Senator Arthur Sinodinos, who helped John Howard run the country for a decade and made a similar call in his first speech to the Senate on 23 November 2011.
Joshua Frydenberg the member for Kooyong has also made the case for a new sovereign wealth fund in both Parliament and in the press.
But what would any of those distinguished contributors to Australian public policy know?
It is remarkable isn’t it, that all of these figures occupying important positions in business, government and our central bank are, according to Mr McCrann, ‘twits”. It is amazing how well so many twits have done in business and public life – and no doubt a source of puzzlement to Mr McCrann who surveys this gallery of his intellectual inferiors at the top of Australian public policy and business.





51 Responses to “Dumb slogans vs rational debate on sovereign wealth funds – or the peculiar case of Terry McCrann”
I’m sure it’s not just recently Mr Turnbull that you’re realising that McCrann is over opinionated zealot for nothing but the opinions of McCrann (and those he looks to for ‘inspiration’).
Ah Malcolm, After seeing you on Q&A this week and reading the above I am now more convinced (not that I wasn’t previously) that my vote in Wentworth was well placed.
Thanks Warwick!
Dude, you joined the wrong party.
Malcolm – please time your run for the leadership well, we may only get one crack at it; and heaven knows we’re going to need you at the top in 2013.
Malcolm would you please, please put your hand up for the leadership? S a woman I just can;t vote for Abbot (and most of my network agree). Or is it al just a metter of time…. here’s hoping
Ah Terry McCrann, a legend in his own lunch box as they say. It’s easy to have all the solutions when your job involves just talking about them.
Anyway I am a supporter of another SWF and have been on the case since 2009 when I wrote this: Is it time for another Australian sovereign wealth fund? http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/economy/is-it-time-for-another-australian-sovereign-wealth-fund/
If the government simply stopped wasting money we would have the seed money for a new sovereign wealth fund. It’s that simple really.
Agree – its hardly an irrresponsible or a lefist approach to public finance.
I believe that this is what you would call a ’skewering’.
Malcolm, go join the labor party, you give conservatives a bad name………
“1. Governments, like businesses, can see spikes in revenues when the business cycle booms.”
I thought the advocacy consisted of creating surpluses to fund a SWF rather than allowing them organically as a result of the business cycle. In any case the horse has bolted on this one. We’ll be in, or within a bees dick of, recession in 12 months should a surplus occur.
Not sure what you mean by that prediction – do you mean that the contraction in spending to create a surplus will create a recession?
A fine slam dunk on the head of the most incompetent and consistently wrong economic commentator in the country. Well done Malcolm.
It is such a shame that you are not leading the Liberals. Your bresdth of insight puts your leaders in the shade. Your vision, unattainable to the negativist Abbott, would set up and guide our nation for decades.
Find a way to get out of your current role which is serving only to trap you in your leader’s unsustainable technological ignorance.
Thanks!
If your run fails, Malcolm, please consider starting your own centrist party.
Our democracy can only be strengthened by forcing the parliament to negotiate with itself.
Cheers
Start your own party Malcolm.
You were great on Q and A this week Malcolm! (As always) I think I have an even better idea than starting your own party, get this republic movement going again and run for President!
I’m no economist, but I wonder why you would set up a future fund instead of just paying down the debt? The surpluses aren’t going to be very big according to Treasury, for the next few years at least. We’re still about $210 billion in the red, shouldn’t we just concentrate on paying that down?
Cheers!
Costello started HEEF as well. The idea of this fund was to use the interest earned for University infrastructure. Six billions dollars was invested.
Rudd changed the name of this fund from HEEF to EIF and rather than spend the interest, Labor has also raided the capitol thereby destroying the fund.
I agree with most of what you have said Malcolm, and support a SWF, however I must point out to Neil, that if the Rudd goverment had not “raided the capitol” over 200,000 people would have been out of work, which would have greater on going costs to the economy, and this nation would have fallen into an on going recession. Peter Costello was by no means a genius, just prudent, and a fan of reducing funding to essential services, whilst selling off all assests where possible.
Malcolm, neither McCrann or Davidson have obviously ever heard of George W. Bush and his unsustainable tax cuts for the wealthy over in the US of A. In gamer parlance, it appears like you’ve effected an almighty ‘pwning’ upon them.
Also, Malcolm you should reclaim the leadership of your party. Mainly because anyone could plagiarise your title and refer it to pretty much any policy area, and direct it towards your party’s leadership team. As of this moment the Liberal Party stands for slogans and shirks off debate. This only started to occur when Tony Abbott won by that single, changeable vote.
Your country needs you Malcolm!
You are the only thing that could change my vote.
To plagiarise a slogan myself, this country could not survive the Mad Dog of the Liberal party. We need you!
Would you mind clarifying the idea of a SWF for me? Is it a pool of funds that if left to grow large enough could potentially generate enough returns to fund part ot all required public expenditure? If that’s the case, what sum would we need in the fund to cover say all aged pensions for example?
Or for that matter ALL government spending?
Trillions upon trillions. Will never cover more than a tiny fraction of public expenditure. Not in any living persons life time at any rate – unless a more comprehensive, unwatered down mining tax was introduced, and all proceeds put into such an account, then with in a few decades we would have a massive SWF, like Norway (or which ever Scandanavian country it is). But Liberals don’t support taxing priveleged wealthy companies or people…
Well said Malcolm. You’re the only politician on either side of politics that I have any respect for. You are intelligent, motivated and stand by your convictions. I also share your capitalist, environmentalist and progressive ideology. I’m hoping that you once again the Liberal party and bring it back from the conservative side of politics.
Hanfsamen kaufen – anonym und diskret…
Der Weed Seed Shop ist der ideale Ort, wenn Sie Hanfsamen online kaufen wollen……
sounds like you are quite passionate about cutting costs malcolm? apparently tempered passion is extremely effective at engaginng with the community, so keep up the good work ! there are perhaps others that are also passionate, and perhaps a brief pause in your sharp wit may be an opportunity to validate the feelings of your critics? apparently the objective of managing a “think they know it all” is to embarass them slightly but allow them the grace to save face so that they dont become staunchly adversarial…. apparently…
[...] Malcolm Turnbull doesn’t like the slogan There is no such thing as unsustainable tax cuts, only unsustainable [...]
Seems like there is a move on from within the conservatives to start denigrating Malcolm Turnbull whenever they can. Mcrann this week, John Roskam (IPA) last week with respect to the media inquiry.
It would seem that the conservative power behind Abbott is worried that Turnbull could get leadership at some time, and they would lose their completely unfettered control in the event of obtaining government. Turnbull might talk sensibly about policies without denigrating all those on the other side. He might support climate change – worse he might believe in it!! He might say there is no link between the boats and problems in Western Sydney!! and the list could go on. Those that support Abbott not only see Labor as an enemy to be “hated”, they also see Turnbull as someone who’s not as hatefull as them.
We can see a bit of a trend starting from the right wing commentators already in Mcrann and Roskam attacking their own to keep Abbott on top, and if Roskam is involved expect a ramp up via other outlets over the next few weeks.
i never cease to be amazed. My you’ve got some spunky backbone and demonstrates solid resilience when one considers ALL the dross from AD-dot youve faced, from all over the quacky place. Abots been religiously keeping his head between his knees lately; it won’t be long before he just mouths the words of his sidekick dummy. I mean that’s what he does now but the next COMPLEX STRATEGIC STUNT will be that his man-handler will have his hand up HIS BUTT and HE will spruik the snap-happy slogans to HIS BUTT’s BIG-mouthing, which should be un piece de cakehole for the LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION – OH NO TONE, NO TONE, NO TONE, NO!!
Please leave my money alone Malcolm, I have only so much of it, more to the point, it’s mine. Cut spending, reduce taxes. I trust you enjoyed the GS version of the muppet’s this morning.
Minimum levy of taxation? Dear god, income tax, GST, carbon tax, disaster tax, rates, land tax, medicare levy, medicare surcharge, stamp duties, excise tax, the only thing unsustainable here is ability of Australian taxpayers being able to pay more tax.
Yes, its spending that unsustainable, and that’s exactly why most of these countries are broke.
Nice hissy fit mate, feel better now Malcolm
Nice misreprentation of Lindzen as well, how did you put it – “I mean, that is the basic physics and, you know, people like Richard Lindzen, who is a great, you know, climate change sceptic and Alan Jones has him on all the time, even he agrees with that.”
Wat has Lindzen said -Lindzen at the House of Commons on February 22:
“BRIEFLY, I will simply try to clarify what the debate over climate change is really about. It most certainly is not about whether climate is changing: it always is. It is not about whether CO2 is increasing: it clearly is. It is not about whether the increase in CO2, by itself, will lead to some warming: it should. The debate is simply over the matter of how much warming the increase in CO2 can lead to, and the connection of such warming to the innumerable claimed catastrophes. The evidence is that the increase in CO2 will lead to very little warming, and that the connection of this minimal warming (or even significant warming) to the purported catastrophes is also minimal.
The arguments on which the catastrophic claims are made are extremely weak and commonly acknowledged as such. They are sometimes overtly dishonest.”
Nice slight of hand, honest Mal
Malcolm, you really are in the wrong party.
The breathtaking arrogance of your assertion that only government can be trusted to take care of those “spikes in revenues when the business cycle booms” is exceeded only by the arrogance with which our current government deploys policy based that same assertion.
Time for you to cross the floor. A move that will result in both sides of parliament being slightly more libertarian.
Malcolm is libertarian? Big government he advocates. With Malcolm, one needs to stop listening to what he says, and look at what he has done and would do. Imagine if a bank could have its own prime minister.
“But if we take it seriously, then we are arguing tax cuts which resulted in the Australian Government being unable to pay wages to soldiers would not be unsustainable.”
Or, our Government could reduce its aid to overseas nations, you know Malcolm, cut spending, it could then pay our soldiers without having to steal more money from taxpayers. What do you think, cut unsustainable spending, novel idea?
See Malcolm, your problem is, you just want to spend more, not cut spending, just S P E N D more. And because you want to S P E N D more, that means our taxes will always increase.
Nice touch bringing not being able to pay our troops into it though. Shrink Government, hell, we could save billions there alone
Malcolm, while I much prefer you to Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott, your piece contains some worrying economic claims. You appear to be relying on these almost entirely to build a case for more sovereign wealth funds.
“Obviously spending is unsustainable if it is unsupported by an acceptable level of taxation, and public borrowings rise over time (ask the Europeans or Americans what that feels like).”
There’s nothing “obvious” about this assertion. Explain how your claim is true, given that Australia issues its own fiat currency, which is not convertible to gold, is freely floating and the government never borrows in foreign currencies. Of course, inflation would take off if deficit spending was running faster than the capacity of the real economy to grow, but that has nothing to do with your claim. Also, why mention the US – it has no government debt problem, as it’s in the same class as us.
“Equally tax cuts are unsustainable if they reduce revenues to a level where they are insufficient to support necessary government expenditure.”
Do you honestly believe that tax revenues “support” government spending? Are you not aware that the purposes of taxation are to force us all to use the official currency and to regulate aggregate demand? Are you not aware that government spending occurs independently of tax collection?
“But if we take it seriously, then we are arguing tax cuts which resulted in the Australian Government being unable to pay wages to soldiers would not be unsustainable.”
By the definition of an Australian dollar, there is no degree of tax cuts that would render the government “unable to pay wages to soldiers”. Dollars are just numbers in a computer at the central bank. Is this an attempt to appeal to the ignorance of the average citizen re our monetary system?
“Therefore there must be a minimum level of taxation needed to sustain it, unless one believes in perpetual budget deficits.”
As per above, taxation does not “finance” spending. There is nothing unsustainable about budget deficits for the federal government. There is nothing magical about the government’s budget balance. It’s irrelevant – what matters are real outcomes like unemployment, GDP per head, inflation etc.
”… tax cuts which result in revenues below the level needed to pay for that spending would be unsustainable – they would mean the spending could not be paid for without resorting to borrowing.”
The Australian Government does not really “borrow” – it gives a (risk-)free ride to bond investors based on practices appropriate to a gold standard. The government doesn’t need their money like a person needs a bank’s money to buy a home. It doesn’t need to issue debt securities, but regardless, there is nothing unsustainable about it borrowing.
“Greece is an extreme case: a country where both the level of spending and the level of taxation (which hardly anyone paid) were unsustainable!”
Garbage – Greece is irrelevant to Australia, as Greece must borrow in a foreign currency. Australia is sovereign in its own currency. Greece’s problems have nothing to do with unpaid taxes. The Eurozone was fatally flawed from the start. The Australian Government always has infinite capacity to spend in its own currency – irrespective of past budgetary outcomes. I can’t understand this advocacy for the Australian Government to accumulate its own fiat currency – it’s about as valid as the SCG trying to “store” points from its scoreboard, lest it run out.
“That is an unduly gloomy appraisal of both our economic prospects and the financial discipline of Tony and the rest of our colleagues.”
You’re again perpetuating the falsehood that the government budget balance is a relevant measure of economic performance/competency.
“… Howard government which, as I noted, did set up a sovereign wealth fund and in taking the burden of unfunded future financial obligations off the shoulders of future generations acted responsibly…”
What relevance do “unfunded future financial obligations” have to a government that is sovereign in its own currency? You’re implying the possibility of insolvency, yet all that is truly possible is (potentially) some inflation, which could be prevented by tax rises at the appropriate time. Sovereign Wealth Funds seem like a good idea to people who don’t understand our monetary system (who believe that government finances are like household ones). They potentially cause governments to stop building vital infrastructure and stimulating aggregate demand in the false belief that they can’t “afford” to do so.
I hear your point, however, isn’t the idea to try and get by without printing money. You seem to advocate increasing the money supply exponentially. That’s a road to disaster.
“… isn’t the idea to try and get by without printing money”
Why? Who cares about some meaningless accounting variable when 14 to 15 per cent of willing workers are either on the scrapheap or close to it (Professor Bill Mitchell)?
“You seem to advocate increasing the money supply exponentially.”
No – only that the government fulfil its obligation under the Reserve Bank Act (and general political obligation) to full employment. Both major parties parrot the same neoliberal lies. They’d do well to read Modern Monetary Theory, which describes how our monetary system operates now and what governments have the power to do.
[...] Martin Parkinson’s speech, which highlighted a key argument for a sovereign wealth fund. I responded to Herald Sun columnist, Terry McCrann, who resorted to dumb slogans rather than rational debate in [...]
dum slogans rather than rational debate, I am confused, is that a dumb or rational reply?
[...] Dumb slogans vs rational debate on sovereign wealth funds – or the peculiar case of Terry McCrann: "The slogan advanced by Sinclair Davidson and Terry McCrann is “there is no such thing as unsustainable tax cuts” (slogans apparently being the new medium for serious political debate). But if we take it seriously, then we are arguing tax cuts which resulted in the Australian Government being unable to pay wages to soldiers would not be unsustainable." Malcolm Turnbull. [...]
Though I no longer watch Q & A due to the unbearable bias of Jones, I understand you browbeat a fellow panellist claiming he had “verballed” Tim Flannery on a matter of the Flim Flam man’s statement about rain runoff and drought. Check this:
Interview with Professor Tim Flannery
Reporter: Sally Sara
First Published: 11/02/2007
SALLY SARA: What will it mean for Australian farmers if the predictions of climate change are correct and little is done to stop it? What will that mean for a farmer?
PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We’re already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we’re getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that’s translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That’s because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that’s a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we’re going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.
http://www.users.on.net/~rjfenwickelliott/Flannely.html
Some verballing! I hope you’re man enough to apologise to the gentleman you tried to intimidate!
I love this one too, from the man costing taxpayers $180,000 per annum to spout recycled alarmist mega-scares part-time Really shows what a huge difference our useless, costly and destrucive carbon dioxide tax is going to make. I mean we have to believe him don’t we? That’s what Gillard/Swan/Combet/Brown/Milne, apparently with your approval as well, say we should do! Yeah. We can see it makes all the pain worthwhile!/SARC
Bolt: On our own, by cutting our emissions, because it’s a heavy price to pay, by 5 per cent by 2020, what will the world’s temperatures fall by as a consequence?
Flannery: Look, it will be a very, very small increment.
Bolt: Have you got a number? I mean, there must be some numbers.
Flannery: I just need to clarify in terms of the climate context for you. If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop for about a thousand years…
LOL
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I have to admit Malcolm it appears Tony Abbott with his economic and technological ineptitude is making me shy away from the Liberal party.
If you were leading and you supported the NBN in its current form and had a carbon reduction plan I would find it very difficult to no vote for you.
Is it just me or is the Liberal party incorrectly named? Then again I suppose the Liberal Party is only a subset of the ‘Coalition’.
They are more conservative than anything, which is a direct contrast to a liberalised party.
Also from the national party’s website
‘We will put an end to Labor’s reckless spending, and secure a fair share of investment in regional Australia.’
So they will cut spending and ensure investment in regional Australia, could be considered counter productive.
‘We want to ensure that all Australians have fair access to services like health and education and critical infrastructure such as good roads and telecommunications to truly unlock regional Australia’s potential.’
Fair access to services? So that is why the National Party is opposed to things like the NBN, and why they support a party that has an abysmal history of infrastructure investment.
Frankly it seems to me the Coalition is trying to flog a dead horse with FTTN, it shows a complete lack of ability to plan for the future. Budget surplus’s are good, however, when a government ignores 20 infrastructure warnings (assuming Albanese is right) then it becomes penny pinching.
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